From Ukcider

edit war

The sentence "The edit history suggests that some of this section may have been written by Aston Manor..." has been removed and re-inserted several times so some kind of resolution needs to be found.

Is there any evidence to support or disprove the asertion? Or a good argument as to why the sentence should or shouldn't be removed. --Andy 09:08, 2 November 2006 (GMT)

I'm guessing that the anonymous (IP-identified) posters who keep playing with the Aston Manor section are one and the same. So it's pretty easy. If it wasn't written by Aston Manor, let them identify themselves. If not, the sentence should stay. IMHO of course :) --Richard Fairhurst 13:31, 2 November 2006 (GMT)

Fair enough. Now I have another question. Does it really matter if Aston Manor have edited their own section? Several small producers appear to have added themselves into the regional producers pages and that must be good for this guide. --Andy 14:57, 2 November 2006 (GMT)

I think there's a difference between "adding" and "editing", though of course that's an issue common to all wikis. The current Aston Manor entry is significantly neutered from my original - not least because the reference to the Bulmers poisoning case was deleted! --Richard Fairhurst 16:44, 2 November 2006 (GMT)

It may be better to add that reference back in together with any other relevant content that's been deleted in place of the reference guessing who edited it. I tend to not like seeing anything deleted, although less is supposed to be more in some cases, I'd prefer to see contrary views explained alongside each other than wiping out what other people have written. Anyway, I'll unlocked the page again now, see what happens.

--Andy 18:09, 2 November 2006 (GMT)

My two penn'orth:- The unpleasant alternative is that Aston Manor see this as free advertising - or should that be propaganda? - in an attempt to make their product appear more wholesome, real and natural than it actually is. As the ukcider wiki becomes more and more recognised as a bona fide resource promoting real cider and perry, so we all need to be more and more aware that some unscrupulous peddlers of industrial gunk will try to hitch a ride: they are on here, therefore they have been added as a maker of real cider... NOT! Personally, I'd lock the page and moderate all requests for input to ensure some objectivity and discussion, but accept that this isn't the essence of a wiki. We may have scruples, but while we are debating amongst ourselves the ethics of editing the wiki, some manufacturers must be laughing up their sleeves. I'm quite happy to take a shift on the Edit War Eastern Front if need be!

--Ray 22:12, 2 November 2006 (GMT)

does the page belong here

I dont think this page belongs on the ukcider wiki really, I wonder what others think. Should we really be including huge links to industrial producers web sites? Linda H

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The links are only big because it seemed sensible to make the headers (which would be there anyway) into hyperlinks. You can make them smaller if you like... though I doubt anything on here is seriously going to affect Bulmers' search engine ranking. ;)

If the mailing list is anything to go by (e.g. the discussions about Magners), there's certainly interest in industrial cider even though we'd all rather drink the proper stuff. The history of the industrial producers is of great relevance to the history of real cider - how, for example, many of the more promising regional producers were swallowed up by the giants.

I personally reckon that, if we want ukcider to grow into the most useful website for cider drinkers, it makes a lot of sense to at least refer to the brands that the novice will have heard of - rather than putting our hands over our eyes and pretending they don't exist. Otherwise you get the ridiculous situation of the new Good Cider Guide, where many of the pub listings mention Addlestones, but nowhere in the book does it actually admit what Addlestones is.

But that's just my opinion. One of the great things about wikis (and the Internet in general) is that they're infinitely expandable: not everything has to be to your own particular taste. You can always go and create pages about the stuff you want to read about!

-- Richard Fairhurst 22:56, 21 December 2005 (GMT)

OK, fair enough. Linda H